Post docs

[compilerbitch]

Well, I now have just over a year left on my PhD, and it seems that postdoc application season is upon me already. I am therefore wishing to Pick Brains, so anyone reading this with relevant knowledge is Encouraged to Contribute.


I should probably start by saying what I'm doing about this already. I am intending to go through the Cambridge Reporter and all of the college web sites grabbing application forms so that I can apply for essentially all relevant JRFs in Cambridge, both stipendary and non-stipendary. I am also intending to apply for funding from several sources, at least including EPSRC, the European Space Agency and the USAF research laboratory. I will also be going through jobs.ac.uk in some detail, of course. This much is common sense, and is basically what my PhD supervisor has suggested.

What I was wondering about was whether this is enough. What are my real chances of a JRF? I know that *someone* has to get each and every one of them, and that, as PhD projects go, mine has been pretty good and has resulted in quite a few papers already. It also has the space science angle which tends to be interesting to general non science people, so I suppose that might help. I also have a pretty ridiculous CV from the point of view of real world experience. Having said that, I am very mindful of the fact that all four of my chosen colleges turned me down when I applied to Cambridge, so I am obviously not seen as all that good. My backgroud is very non-Cambridge, I suppose, but I don't really know if it will be seen differently now. I know I will get good references, that much is clear, but then, I had pretty good references when I came to Cam and a fat lot of good that did with the colleges.

I suppose what I'm doing primarily at the moment is trying to put funding together to fund my own postdoc. The grant will of course be held by my current PhD supervisor, rather than me personally, although the project will be entirely mine. I'll essentially be a group leader in practice though not in name. Is this likely to be seen as any better than if I just happened to sign up for a random postdoc that someone else has already got funding for, when I get to the point of applying for a lectureship at some point in the future? If I get the funding, what happens if I don't get even a nonstipendary JRF?

I know that I could probably get a lectureship immediately after my PhD if I was prepared to go to an ex-poly or some such. Do people ever manage to get back into top tier institutions after doing that?

OK, lots of questions, I know, but I have more.

Should I stay in Cambridge, or go somewhere else for a postdoc? Obviously, doing the latter is relatively straightforward if I find something and apply for it. If I found funding from somewhere, I suppose there is always the possibility of going along and asking somewhere to accommodate me. I'm already essentially self-sufficient, given the relatively small amount of contact I have had with my supervisor in recent months. I was also thinking about Oxford as a possibility. What are my chances of getting a JRF there, on the basis that most likely I'd be turning up and bringing a new subject speciality with me to whatever department I'd end up in (could either be maths, computing or engineering, realistically).

And, finally, if anyone out there is looking for a postdoc in October 06, do shout! :-)

Comments

[hilarityallen.livejournal.com]

Well, you have some pretty cool stuff on your CV, and actual experience. But it's not uncommon for JRFs to have 300+ applicants per place. I've not succeeded in getting one, either.

[compilerbitch.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yes. Applying for post docs is going to be a LOT of work, since everyone seems to insist on using their own forms that have to be submitted in umptillioniplicate, with personal statements and references etc. Whoever I choose as referees will be *sorry*. I suppose I want to know what my chances actually are, because it would make much more sense to spend the same kind of time putting good grant proposals together for the research councils and the European Space Agency.

Bah.

The one thing I hate in this world the most is throwing time away on low probability, marginal payoff activities like this.

[hilarityallen.livejournal.com]

From the conference I was at in Leeds earlier this month, the general consensus is that getting project money is probably easier than getting a JRF. With a project, you know what people want to hear, and at least the competition is against reasonably related disciplines. For some JRFs, you and I could be up for the same fellowship, so you get any old person reading your personal statements. And yes, your referees will absolutely hate you, as so many JRFs insist on references upfront. So they send off twenty or so references (I think that's how many jobs I've applied for now), and you still don't get the bloody job.

If JRFs still seem a reasonable route, then you need to have completed your PhD these days. They're much happier if your examiners like your work too. Having done prestigious research work for an outside agency does up your chances an awful lot, too.

[compilerbitch.livejournal.com]

Hmm...

Completing a PhD first would mean a 1 year gap before taking up the JRF. Less than ideal, but I take your point.

In my favour, so far I have 6 publications (with 3 or 4 more to be submitted by the time I complete), one of which was joint work with NASA Ames, and what I'm doing seems reasonably well received. Some of my stuff is very hardcore theoretical and nearly impossible to explain to a nonspecialist, but the space science stuff can be made much more accessible (I managed to do a public lecture on it last year OK). I don't know -- I'd like to think that I'm going to hold my own as regards the success of my PhD, but I'm more concerned that my previous history is too weird (even though it has its impressive bits all the same)

[mair_in_grenderich]

have you chatted to your phd supervisor? he is likely to have some idea what your CV looks like from other people's point of view?

[compilerbitch.livejournal.com]

I have, and am doing basically what he suggested, which is to apply for everything that moves (or that doesn't move), whilst putting together a few grant proposals that he's happy to front. It's just that he's only slightly superhuman, so it's wise for me to ask around!

[jambon-gris.livejournal.com]

IMHO If you write a grant proposal and its accepted stick with it, science is a small world, and the right people will know, anyway it will be on your CV and reference when its time to move on. Moving about a bit helps as well I think. Ive been out of work for 6 months so I may of course be talking rubbish

[hsenag.livejournal.com]

[I don't know you personally, though I feel like I really ought to :-) You're an LJ friend of a friend by many routes. My background consists of PhD+3 years postdoc at Oxford doing various programming languages work, now working for ARM's compiler group. Made some attempts at getting lectureships in early 2004 before deciding to give industry a try instead.]

Presumably you intend to apply for an EPSRC Postdoctoral Fellowship. I think that is "take anywhere" funding and I would expect most institutions to welcome you with open arms if you had one. Likewise for Royal Society fellowships.

It'll look far better on your CV if you have found your own funding already than if you just did someone else's postdoc. After all, one of the duties of a lecturer is to get and hold research grants, so having already done the "getting" part yourself is a major bonus.

I've known people who have moved back from ex-polys to top-tier universities (e.g. Oxford Brookes -> Oxford). But I also know people who have got jobs at decent universities (e.g. Warwick) straight out of their PhDs.

The same kind of rules apply to Oxford JRF's as Cambridge ones. The best ones to get are at Merton/Christ Church/St John's - they operate a rotation system between them so specific subjects in a specific year get directed to one of the three colleges. Magdalen is also pretty good though I think the appointments have been a bit CS-heavy in recent years so your chances might be weaker.

Going somewhere other than Cambridge will look somewhat better on your CV, but it probably won't matter too much, particularly if you have a decent range of collaboration evident from your papers (the link to them isn't working at the moment so I can't check for myself). That said, one of the suggestions made when I was rejected for a lectureship at Oxford was that I should spend a couple of years elsewhere and try again - but my academic track record is very much tied to my former PhD supervisor, which I guess isn't/wouldn't be the case with you.